Is Atheism True Debate - Jones v. Maundy

Is Atheism True?

Dr. Brent Maundy

Rebuttal 2

Mikes Statement : Second, the definition of omnipotence I provided in the OS was"Unmodified classical theism says god's omnipotence means god is capable of doing anything that is logically possible." Again, Brent did not voice in his rebuttal any disagreement with that definition, so it is rational for me to proceed under the assumption that Maundy agrees with me that omnipotence is the ABILITY to do anything that is logically possible."

Brent response: Mike has an uncanning ability to confuse things. I do not agree with Mike that "omnipotence is the ABILITY to do anything that is logically possible." I rebut that in 4 ways:

Brent Rebuttal 1) Logic is reason conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity that men define. God is not bound by man's finite logic simply because God created all things including the ability of man to reason. Therefore God has no reason to limit himself to his creation abilities. That is absurd. His omnipotence still stands.

Brent Rebuttal 2) If Mikes statement is true then I can claim that it is "logically possible" for me to steal food at the local grocery because I am hungry and I have the ability (no relatives will feed me) and I need to feed my family because I'm poor. While that is a logical statement it does not make me omnipotent nor is it morally right, even though the logical consequence of being hungry is to seek food to survive.

Brent Rebuttal 3) Logic is only as good as to the principles that it is applied too. I reiterate that God is outside of space and time, being the creator of them both. Whether God chooses to do something or not do, it is at his discretion, not ours. Regardless if we think it is logical or not as well.

Brent Rebuttal 4) As Mike has so nicely provided, parts of scripture show that God can and does change his mind but at other times he carries out his will. That has nothing to do with the ability to do anything that is logically possible.

Mike Objection: God can do all things as inJob 42:2 and Matthew 19:26, which contradicts Mike statement that Brent claims that God has no need to change his plan or change his mind.

Brents reply: I never stated that God cannot changed his mind or has not in the past. Mike is trying to twist things to his detriment and he clasps at straws. I merely stated and I quote myself "Therefore he God would have no need to change Jesus arrival date because God will shall always be done and was done in 0 AD. " In no way does that indicate that God never changes his mind and in fact we know he did not change his mind in the case of Jesus birth because Jesus was born in 0 AD. God did change his mind in Matthew 19:26 and other places but Mike ignores the fact that God knew he would change his mind because he foresaw it, being outside of space and time. Again I repeat that God being outside of space and time knows our hearts, wills and what we can and do choose. That in no way indicates that God has mutually contradictory properties.

I remind the reader Mikes defense of athesism was originally premised on

"God who is omniscient and omnipotent (God of unmodified classical theism) possesses mutually contradictory properties. Why because assuming God knew hewould impregnate Mary in 0 AD, God does not have the power to delay impregnating Mary in 1 AD. Therefore God who is incapable of failing must be false andatheism (positive) must be true."

Brent Summary: Mike an unbeliever cites numerous scriptures yet never once has Mike shown that atheism is true and God has mutually contradictory properties. Mikes original example of using Mary remains a poor example and does not prove atheism is true as I have rebut it.


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