Moderator Scoring Copy: Verga’s Round 2b|
Thesis Statement in BLUE
Valid Documentation in RED
Closing Summary in PURPLE
Non-considered statements in GREY
Invalid arguments (-5 points each, up to 25 points) in PINK
Moderator comments in ORANGE
I will answer both of my opponents questions and rebut one point from his opening statement before moving on to new material:
1) No I am not willing to retract. The verses you cited are non sequitors. In the second part of the question you say that it "could simply be..." What does Hebrews 2:2, the literal word of God say?
2) This question was already answered in my opening statement. Jesus is going to be with us until the end of the age.
In your opening statement you said "And Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord (Ex 24:3-4)." The very last verse of John tells that the whole world could not contain the writings of all the things that Jesus did over a three year period how much more could be written about the Father with the Israelites over 40 years in the desert? (this is not a question round)
In this round I would like to point out several problems that occur with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
The first is that until the mid 1400's the printing press had not yet been invented. The Bible like every other text had to be laboriously copied by hand and the cost of doing so as well as the low literacy rate restricted the ownership and reading of the Bible. (no source) -5 points
Second, in my interrogatory I referred to the "plain" things and "main" things. John Calvin viewed infant baptism as a necessity (Inst 4, 16, 8 http://www.reformed.org/master/index.html?mainframe=/books/institutes/ ) Martin Luther also supported it. (http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/catechism/web/cat-13a.html) John MacArthur says it is not in scripture, ( Para 16 http://www.biblebb.com/files/mac/infbap.htm) and so does the baptist community. (no source for that last comment). -5 points
In his "Short Treatise on the Lord's Supper, 17" (http://www.the-highway.com/supper1_Calvin.html) John Calvin refers to Christ being substantially present in the Eucharist, As does Luther, "Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? ......It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present" (Works #7 pg 391) (Invalid for this debate, all sources must be online sources). -5 points
In 1992 the Church of England voted to ordain Women as Priests and in 2008 as Bishops causing a serious rift (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4289994.ece) In 2003 they announced the elevation of an openly gay man to the level of Bishop (http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-07-07-bishop06_ST_N.htm)
Approximately 10 years ago there was a rift between the Southern Baptist Convention and the Texas Baptist Convention over a number of points including ordination of women and Gays (http://www.mbla.org/controversy2.htm).Now some Baptist Groups are opening performing homosexual "unions" (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/24/gay-marriage-splits-african-american-church/) It should also be noted that both the pastor and his wife are ordained as pastors in this church.
Mr. Anthony is correct not only is Sola Scriptura unraveling, it is falling apart completely.
With all of these separate contradictory practices that the practitioners claim that they have taken directly from the Bible is is clear why St. Peter warned us 2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. (Thesis statement followed the documentation in this case). Is this truly the unity that Jesus spoke of John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one(?) (Not a question round).
I have shown clear disparity among among several main stream protestant groups that all claim to follow Sola Scriptura Jesus clearly said in John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. Is this guidance? (Not a question round).
Word Count: 701
Opening Statement(s): 25 points
Documentation: -5 for each invalid source (3): 10 points
Closing Statement: 25 points
Validity of Argumentation: 25 points, but watch the asking of questions in a non-question round.
Total Score: 85 points