Free Will Debate Antony v. Windsor

Free Will Debate

Round 3b

Windsor’s Responses to Antony 3a

1a) What you or I can logically deduce does not equate to citing Scripture implying Scripture has explicitly supported you.  You said:

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son WISHES TO REVEAL HIM"  (Matt 11:27, NAB).  Your rubric is that the plan of salvation goes out without any intention to save anyone in particular.   

My “rubric” does not limit God in the least.  I do not diminish the “special calling” of some individuals, however those individuals still come from the “all” who are “drawn.”  Let us not forget: "For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 NASB)  The clear implication here is that there is more who are called than who are ultimately chosen.  

1b) You said:

How do you reconcile that with His WISH  to, "call [on]  purpose" (Rms 8:28)  and "set aside"  both Isaiah and Paul from their mother's womb?  (Isa 49:1, Gal 1:15).

The special calling of Isaiah and St. Paul are not the same as the drawing of all men to Him.  I do not deny there have been special callings - like the Blessed Virgin Mary who was “set aside,” shall we say, from the very moment of her conception (don’t be distracted by that).  Direct answer:  there is nothing to reconcile - a special calling and the general drawing are not the same things.  And as for Romans 8, read on a few more verses!

He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?  (Romans 8:32 NASB emphasis mine).

While one may interpret “us all” as the “us” being a limiting factor of “all,” the “us” can refer to all of mankind.

2) God draws all men to Him (John 12:32), even the wicked, so they have no recourse or excuses.  Our God is a Just God.  Yes, He hated the wicked, even before they were born because of that first link in the “Golden Chain” which so many Determinists tend to diminish or overlook completely...  He FOREKNEW them.  God, outside our temporal and linear view of time, knows already who would reject Him, and it is those - whom He has hated, in HIS time.  And I must re-emphasize Matthew 22:14.

3) Just because God has foreknown those who will reject Him and accept Him does not stop Him from working in us to His good pleasure.  No, there’s no contradiction.  That being said, go back just one verse!  

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;  (Philippians 2:12 NASB)

St. Paul telling us to “work out (our) salvation with fear and trembling” is not sounding like one who believes in predestination!  If we have to “obey” and “work” at something, then it is a matter of our “will.”  

4) You’re equivocating the general drawing with a specific calling - and even to the “saved.”  There is one group of the drawn, and all men belong to that group.  Within that group there are subsets of the saved and the damned.  Within the subset of the saved there is yet another group of those who were specially called.  Because someone does not receive a special calling to, say the ministry - does not make that person “less saved.”  Both are saved, and one has a special calling.  We’re not all bishops or prophets!   For the direct answer to your question, no, I do not retract.  

5) With regard to John 3:16, I did not say “loved and drawn” - I just said, as Scripture does, “loved.”  The “drawing” of “all men” comes in John 12:32.  That’s just a technicality, but let’s be precise.  As for Luke 2:1, the word used for “world” can also mean the “Roman Empire” (which was the whole world, so far as Ceasar was concerned).  Note Strong’s reference G3625:



Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire:

No “crumbling” there as for the rest of the verses you list (but don’t quote from any of them) I’m not going to spend my wordcount going through each one.  The point of John 3:16 is that God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER (and THAT is where the unlimited factor is found), not merely in the word “world.”  The context of 3:16 stands on its own, and there’s no crumbling of my argument in the use of “world” in other contexts.

I believe I’ve given you quite adequate answers to your questions.  You have yet to expose any kink in the armor of the Free Will God gives mankind so that we might choose to love Him with all our heart, all our mind and all our soul:

And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.  (Luke 10:27-28 KJV)

I’ll leave you with the following verse, expressing God’s desire:

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.  (1 Timothy 2:3-4 NASB)


Word Count: 939

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